Bubbling Under - The Afterword Albums 251-500

tiggerlion's picture

By popular demand - this time in sequence - the Afterword Albums 251-500. I haven't untangled equal scores. For example, four albums score 442 points. For the Top 250, I put the one with the highest number of votes in the higher rank on the grounds it had broader support. Here, there are quite a few of equal score & life is too short to sort them out. There are only 200 points separating these 250 albums - less than a point each. So, this list captures the flavour of the voters' preferences just outside of the 'mainstream' (hence, the picture of Wu Tang Clan at 258).

The first number is the album's rank, the second its score & the final one is the number of votes it attracted.

251 447 Clear Spot Captain Beefheart 10
252 444 Wild Wood Paul Weller 8
253 442 Nightclubbing Grace Jones 7
254 442 Reading Writing And Arithmetic Sundays 7
255 442 The Joshua Tree U2 11
256 442 Odyssey and Oracle Zombies 8
257 435 Heaven or Las Vegas Cocteau Twins 10
258 434 Enter The Wu-Tang (36 Chambers) Wu-Tang Clan 6
259 433 Made in Japan Deep Purple 7
260 432 Too-Rye-Ay Dexys Midnight Runners 7
261 424 Armed Forces Elvis Costello & The Attractions 6
262 424 Purple Rain Prince & The Revolution 8
263 423 Violator Depeche Mode 7
264 422 Feats Don't Fail Me Now Little Feat 7
265 420 John Wesley Harding Bob Dylan 6
266 420 Singles Going Steady Buzzcocks 10
267 419 Fire & Water Free 7
268 418 #1 Record Big Star 10
269 418 Workers’ Playtime Billy Bragg 7
270 417 The Piper at the Gates of Dawn Pink Floyd 7
271 416 Being There Wilco 8
272 415 If I Should Fall From Grace With God Pogues 8
273 414 Seventh Tree Goldfrapp 7
274 414 Late For The Sky Jackson Browne 8
275 414 Some Girls Rolling Stones 8
276 413 Grevious Angel Gram Parsons 8
277 412 Blues Breakers John Mayall with Eric Clapton 5
278 411 The Dreaming Kate Bush 5
279 409 Buffalo Springfield Again Buffalo Springfield 7
280 408 Blur Blur 9
281 405 Roxy Music Roxy Music 11
282 402 Aqualung Jethro Tull 8
283 402 Arthur, or the Decline and Fall of the British Empire The Kinks 6
284 399 Appetite For Destruction Guns'n'Roses 8
285 398 I Just Can’t Stop It The Beat 9
286 395 Leaders of the Free World Elbow 5
287 395 Document R.E.M. 7
288 393 Ramones Ramones 7
289 392 Young Americans David Bowie 6
290 391 Stupidity Dr. Feelgood 7
291 389 Giant Steps Boo Radleys 7
292 389 Heaven Up Here Echo & The Bunnymen 8
293 388 The Smiths Smiths 7
294 384 If You're Feeling Sinister Belle & Sebastian 6
295 383 American III: Solitary Man Johnny Cash 6
296 383 Strangeways Here We Come Smiths 6
297 382 Tunnel of Love Bruce Springsteen
298 380 Vespertine Björk 6
299 380 Maria McKee Maria McKee 7
300 378 The Sun Sessions Elvis Presley 5
301 378 Birds of Fire Mahavishnu Orchestra 7
302 378 Argus Wishbone Ash 8
303 377 Give 'Em Enough Rope The Clash 5
304 377 Entertainment! Gang of Four 5
305 376 Discipline King Crimson 6
306 376 The Impossible Bird Nick Lowe 6
307 375 Tubular Bells Mike Oldfield 6
308 374 At Folsom Prison Johnny Cash 5
309 373 Otis Blue: Otis Redding Sings Soul Otis Redding 10
310 369 Boys & Girls In America The Hold Steady 7
311 368 Boxer The National 7
312 368 Yankee Hotel Foxtrot Wilco 6
313 367 Untrue Burial 6
314 366 Since I Left You Avalanches 5
315 366 Eli and the Thirteenth Confession Laura Nyro 6
316 365 Ragged Glory Neil Young & Crazy Horse 6
317 365 Good Old Boys Randy Newman 6
318 364 Liquid Swords GZA 5
319 364 Crime Of The Century Supertramp 7
320 363 Rumor and Sigh Richard Thompson 7
321 361 Fun House Stooges 8
322 359 Substance New Order 6
323 356 Crosby, Stills and Nash Crosby, Stills and Nash 6
324 356 Kid A Radiohead 9
325 351 Brutal Youth Elvis Costello & The Attractions 5
326 351 Unhalfbricking Fairport Convention 9
327 350 Abandoned Luncheonette Hall and Oates 7
328 350 In The Court Of The Crimson King King Crimson 6
329 350 Penguin Eggs Nic Jones 6
330 349 The Rise and Fall Madness 5
331 349 You Cant Hide Your Love Forever Orange Juice 5
332 349 Illinois: Come On Feel The Illinoise! Sufjan Stevens 8
333 347 Bellybutton Jellyfish 8
334 347 Stormcock Roy Harper 5
335 346 Raising Sand Robert Plant & Alison Krauss 10
336 345 Back To Black Amy Winehouse 7
337 345 Debut Björk 5
338 345 Get Yer Ya-Yas Out! Rolling Stones 5
339 345 Ladies and Gentlemen We Are Floating in Space Spiritualized 6
340 345 Sell Out Who 5
341 344 Is This It Strokes 8
342 343 Utopia Parkway Fountains of Wayne 6
343 343 Alligator National 4
344 343 Rattus Norvegicus Stranglers 8
345 342 XTRMNTR Primal Scream 6
346 342 Moving Pictures Rush 6
347 341 Summerteeth Wilco 7
348 340 The Crossing Big Country 6
349 340 Power, Corruption & Lies New Order 7
350 339 Meet Danny Wilson Danny Wilson 5
351 339 Damn The Torpedoes Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers 6
352 335 Essence Lucinda Williams 6
353 333 Joan Armatrading Joan Armatrading 6
354 333 Sketches Of Spain Miles Davis 6
355 333 Let England Shake PJ Harvey 7
356 333 In It For The Money Supergrass 7
357 332 Super Ape Lee "Scratch" Perry & The Upsetters 5
358 332 This Is The Sea Waterboys 5
359 331 Goats Head Soup Rolling Stones 6
360 331 The Colour Of Spring Talk Talk 6
361 331 In A Pagan Place Waterboys 4
362 329 Berlin Lou Reed 7
363 329 Tonight's The Night Neil Young 5
364 328 Avalon Roxy Music 8
365 328 Non-stop Erotic Cabaret Soft Cell 6
366 328 Bang World Party 5
367 325 Axis: Bold As Love Jimi Hendrix Experience 5
368 323 The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan Bob Dylan 8
369 323 New York Dolls New York Dolls 6
370 321 Bless The Weather John Martyn 4
371 321 The Correct Use Of Soap Magazine 6
372 320 Sweetheart of the Rodeo Byrds 8
373 318 Time Out Of Mind Bob Dylan 6
374 318 Safe As Milk Captain Beefheart 7
375 318 Sunken Condos Donald Fagen 6
376 318 Psychocandy Jesus and Mary Chain 5
377 317 The White Room KLF 5
378 317 Nixon Lambchop 6
379 316 Taking Tiger Mountain (by Strategy) Brian Eno 5
380 316 Common One Van Morrison 6
381 315 Metal Box PiL 7
382 314 The Crane Wife Decemberists 6
383 314 American IV: The Man Comes Around Johnny Cash 6
384 314 Heavy Weather Weather Report 5
385 311 Beautiful Freak Eels 6
386 311 Foxtrot Genesis 7
387 311 Kite Kirsty MacColl 6
388 311 His 'N' Hers Pulp 6
389 311 Infected The The 7
390 310 The Inner Mounting Flame Mahavishnu Orchestra 6
391 309 Blinking Lights & Other Revelations Eels 5
392 306 Elastica Elastica 8
393 305 Fear Of A Black Planet Public Enemy 5
394 305 Other Songs Ron Sexsmith 5
395 304 Ogden’s Nut Gone Flake Small Faces 8
396 302 Another Green World Brian Eno 4
397 302 Ophelia Natalie Merchant 5
398 301 In The Aeroplane Over The Sea Neutral Milk Hotel 6
399 301 The Boatman’s Call Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds 7
400 300 Diamond Dogs David Bowie 5
401 300 New York Lou Reed 8
402 300 I Should Coco Supergrass 8
403 298 Paris 1919 John Cale 6
404 297 Katy Lied Steely Dan 6
405 296 Live at Carnegie Hall Bill Withers 6
406 295 XO Elliott Smith 4
407 294 This Nation’s Saving Grace The Fall 5
408 294 Lust For Life Iggy Pop 5
409 294 Computer World Kraftwerk 8
410 294 Sleeps With Angels Neil Young & Crazy Horse 5
411 294 The Pretenders The Pretenders 10
412 293 Black Love Afghan Whigs 3
413 293 Legend Bob Marley & The Wailers 5
414 293 Daisies Of The Galaxy Eels 6
415 293 1969: The Velvet Underground Live The Velvet Underground 4
416 293 Pink Flag Wire 5
417 292 The Trials of Van Occupanther Midlake 5
418 291 Maxinquaye Tricky 7
419 290 13 Blur 5
420 290 Either/Or Elliott Smith 5
421 290 Sailin Shoes Little Feat 5
422 290 Illmatic Nas 5
423 290 Queen II Queen 4
424 289 Autobahn Kraftwerk 6
425 289 Actually Pet Shop Boys 5
426 288 At Fillmore East The Allman Brothers 5
427 288 The River Bruce Springsteen 8
428 287 The Caution Horses Cowboy Junkies 7
429 287 I Am Earth Wind and Fire 3
430 287 Siamese Dream Smashing Pumpkins 5
431 286 ChangesOneBowie David Bowie 6
432 286 Live at San Quentin Johnny Cash 7
433 284 Peter Green’s Fleetwood Mac Fleetwood Mac 6
434 283 If You Want Blood... AC/DC 6
435 283 Eden Everything But The Girl 6
436 282 Endtroducing... DJ Shadow 7
437 282 The Unforgettable Fire U2 7
438 282 Live at Leeds The Who 6
439 281 Blow By Blow Jeff Beck 4
440 277 Don’t Try This at Home Billy Bragg 6
441 277 Trout Mask Replica Captain Beefheart 4
442 276 Souljacker Eels 4
443 275 Manassas Stephen Stills 4
444 275 Suede Suede 9
445 274 Nobody's Perfect The Distractions 4
446 274 Sound Of Lies Jayhawks 4
447 274 Spilt Milk Jellyfish 4
448 274 Christmas and the Beads of Sweat Laura Nyro 5
449 274 77 Talking Heads 5
450 273 The Liberty of Norton Folgate Madness 5
451 273 Ágætis Byrjun Sigur Ros 4
452 272 Arrival ABBA 6
453 271 Play Moby 7
454 271 Vampire Weekend Vampire Weekend 7
455 270 Off The Wall Michael Jackson 8
456 270 First and Last and Always Sisters Of Mercy 5
457 269 Life’s A Riot With Spy Vs Spy Billy Bragg 4
458 269 Replicas Tubeway Army 3
459 268 Chill Out KLF 4
460 268 There Goes Rhymin' Simon Paul Simon 6
461 268 Want One Rufus Wainwright 4
462 267 Time Out Dave Brubeck Quartet 4
463 267 In The Wee Small Hours Of The Morning Frank Sinatra 7
464 267 It's Too Late To Stop Now Van Morrison 5
465 266 The Trinity Session Cowboy Junkies 5
466 266 Hollywood Town Hall Jayhawks 4
467 265 Here Come The Snakes Green On Red 4
468 264 Bachelor No 2 or the last remains of the dodo Aimee Mann 6
469 264 (What's The Story) Morning Glory? Oasis 6
470 264 Architecture and Morality Orchestral Manoeuvres in the Dark 5
471 264 Live in Europe Rory Gallagher 4
472 263 Native Sons Long Ryders 5
473 261 Please Pet Shop Boys 4
474 260 If I Could Only Remember My Name David Crosby 6
475 260 Vauxhall and I Morrissey 4
476 260 Saturday Night Fever OST Various Artists 5
477 260 Excitable Boy Warren Zevon 7
478 259 Vivadixiesubmarinetransmissionplot Sparklehorse 5
479 258 Welcome to the Pleasuredome Frankie Goes To Hollywood 5
480 258 Steppin' Out with the Grateful Dead: England '72 Grateful Dead 3
481 258 Sir Henry at Rawlinson End Vivian Stanshall 5
482 257 Forbidden Songs Of The Dying West Jackie Leven 3
483 257 Judee Sill Judee Sill 4
484 256 Crocodiles Echo & The Bunnymen 6
485 255 Pieces of The Sky Emmylou Harris 4
486 255 Juju Siouxsie & the Banshees 6
487 254 Cosmo’s Factory Creedence Clearwater Revival 5
488 254 Family Entertainment Family 4
489 254 Neither Washington Nor Moscow Redskins 4
490 252 Electronic Electronic 3
491 252 Original Pirate Material Streets 6
492 250 Billion Dollar Babies Alice Cooper 5
493 250 Killer Alice Cooper 6
494 250 Mock Tudor Richard Thompson 4
495 249 Songs for Silverman Ben Folds Five 4
496 248 Expecting To Fly Bluetones 4
497 247 Lucinda Williams Lucinda Williams 6
498 247 Bookends Simon & Garfunkel 6
499 247 Stangers Almanac Whiskeytown 5
500 246 Paul’s Boutique Beastie Boys 4

Top 250 here http://theafterword.co.uk/content/afterword-top-250-albums-results


[moons the Massive, storms out, slams door]


the Abbey Road sample saves it. Kind of.

"But it's just some shouting over bits of other people's records!"

You people are my Dad in 1989 and I claim my pocket money.

and implying that the Beatles' sample was the only good bit of the entire album. I don't really think that, of course, that's why I'm aware of the sample.

But I'd love to know how they got permission to use it.

They didn't. The whole album is an apocalypse of uncleared samples. That year the Turtles successfully sued De La Soul for using You Showed Me on Transmitting Live From Mars. That was the beginning of the end of the free-for-all.

Sounds of Science has When I'm 64, Sgt Pepper Reprise and The End. Egg Man has.... no I'll let you guess that one.

that's where Wild Wood went...

In fact quite a few of my top 100 are "bubbling under".

Ouch. Below Amy, the Hold Steady and Supertramp. How the mighty have fallen...

People seem to have chosen records that they actually like. For shame!

Is there any chance of one of you fine hard working chaps posting/mailing the top 500 on the Excel sheet to me or All TM?

I probably need to get out more!

the top 500 on an excel spreadsheet - PM me with your email address and I’ll send it to you.

I have much more new listening to attempt based on 251 to 500 - not much unheard in top 250.

I started to do this but lost heart / will to live around row no. 167. Found a way to remove digits from the end of each cell:

=LEFT(A2, LEN(A2)-2)

but separating artist and album name proved labour-intensive ;-)



But I went for A Far Cry From Dead, which with hindsight was foolishly obscure.

and still whither the blues

...I find that I own 15 of the 'bottom 250'... compared to a miserable 11 of the top 250.

I think I'm still the Least Afterwordy Person Here By Popular Statistical Analysis, but at least I can be sure of being more in tune with people the further toward the ice-bound fringes we go.... Yippee!

But you are held in such high regard & with such affection. At least Mahavishnu are in twice! You should take some credit for that.

Which reminds me. Where is my copy of Birds Of Fire?

...take the credit for that, TigMeister!

Actually, I didn't vote for 'Inner Mounting Flame' at all. I was trying to be a tad more cosmopolitan than people might imagine.

But while I do love several pieces on it, and indeed would place 'Dawn' and 'You Know, You Know' in my Top 10 Pieces Of Music list (if I thought about such things), I don't love it as much 'as an album' as most of the other things in my own Top 50... if that makes sense?

So just think, if it *hadn't* been for me, the MO just might have scraped the lower reaches of the Top 300...

if I recall correctly. My one surprise about your vote was the absence of Slade Alive!

...it's a great album. I suppose I must have enthused about it before around here? well, if so, you're certainly a fellow with an incredible memory!

I've just looked at the Top 100 Artists (compiled below). Things are looking up: I own records (often several records) by 22 of the 100. So, perhaps not as marginal/manning-the-lighthouse-on-St-Kilda as I first feared...

Is that not a live Mahavishnu waxing from the legendary 1972 Trondheim gig, Colin? ;-)

Rise & Fall above Norton Folgate.
My belief that it is the better of the two is supported. Give it a couple of years though, and things might be different

Interesting (to a saddo like me) that Billion Dollar Babies & Killer got the same score - I can't really split them either (although BDB might just edge it).

And still no Penguin Cafe Orchestra (maybe because I forgot that one on my 100).

There must be a 500-750, but I think that's where we may stroll into 'what is the point?' territory

Oce again, all plaudits to you for doing this.

But harder & harder to justify a ranking!! 4400 into 250 points doesn't really go, does it?

what came bottom and are desperately hoping we voted for it! No rush.

The following all attracted a single point:

Let's Get Professional ..012
Absolutely ABC
Song Wars volume 1 Adam and Joe
Somewhere I've Never Travelled Ambrosia
Mos Def and Talib Kweli... Are Black Star Black Star
Second helpings Blancmange
100 Minutes of Chuck Berry Chuck Berry
One Year Colin Blunstone
Come Down Dandy Warhols
Live in London Devon Sproule
Emerson Lake And Palmer Emerson Lake & Palmer
Dedication Gary U.S Bonds
The Remote Part Idlewild
Country Hits Jeery Lee Lewis
Spillane John Zorn
Keren Ann Keren Ann
July Flame Laura Viers
Impossibad Lonely Island
Free Spirits Mary Lou Williams Trio
Live in Treorchy Max Boyce
And No More Shall We Part Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds
Heavy Soul Paul Weller
Give Out But Don't Give Up Primal Scream
Rage Against The Machine Rage Against The Machine
End of the Century Ramones
Third Eye Redd Kross
Antique Soul Smoove and Turrell
Read My Lips Sophie Ellis-Bextor
Greatest Hits Squeeze
Twice Born Men Sweet Billy Pilgrim
Zinc Alloy & The Hidden Riders of Tomorrow T.Rex
Man in a Suitcase Ted Chippington
Pure Vernunft darf niemals siegen Tocotronic
Rattle And Hum U2
Rock Follies of '77 - TV Soundtrack Various Artists
Deutsche Elektronische Musik Various Artists
The Rock Machine Turns You On Various Artists
Yuck Yuck

"Various Artists"? I beg to differ, Tiggs.
The group were known as The Little Ladies in the programme and The Rock Follies on their chart topping records. The line up on both albums was the same (apart from the addition of Sue Jones-Davies - ex-wife of Chris Langham, ex-Mayor of Aberystwyth, 'Judith Iscariot' in Life Of Brian - in the last three episodes and on a couple of songs).
I presume Rock Follies (the imaginatively titled first album) is erroneously absent from that list. Unless someone other than myself voted for it. And I doubt that so very much.

The other album scored two points. Just for the record, I have both. I like them. Andy Mackay created the music, of course, and some was not actually performed by the 'fictional' group The Little Ladies. It was the project that made MacKay his money. He earned more doing that than any he got from Roxy Music. At the time, it made him Roxy's most successful solo artist, out-selling Ferry.

So, I baulked at crediting it to The Little Ladies

josky and franco
oussou ndour


and the aussie ones?

That list of albums are the ones that only got one point, not those that only got one nomination.
To only get one point, an album would have to be at position 100 in someone's list.
So although I voted for plenty of albums that no one else voted for, the only one that's on the above list is "Free Spirits" by Mary Lou Williams, because that was number 100 in my list and only scored one point. Great album, by the way!

There are thousands of albums with only one vote. Far too many to post a list!!

I was frantically trying to work out who else might have voted for I Get Wet by Andrew W.K.

mentioned anywhere, these days. A great pianist and well worth any jazz-lover's attention.

Williams Fan Club, Mike? I reckon we could get a few people to sign up - tiggerlion, Rob C, Colin H, maybe. You know - the usual jazzer suspects on this august board. Mary Lou certainly was an incredible musican. For me, she's the First Lady of jazz piano.

if you pardon the French!

One question, if you were to remove albums and group artists on points scored then who would be the afterwards favourite artists?
Apologies if this creates more work.

1. The Beatles (14,328 points)
2. David Bowie (9,819)
3. Bob Dylan (8,915)
4. Rolling Stones (6,127)
5. Steely Dan (6,048)
6. Pink Floyd (5,929)
7. Elvis Costello (5,300)
8. Neil Young (4,984)
9. Bruce Springsteen (4,969)
10. Joni Mitchell (4,730)
11. Led Zeppelin (4,471)
12. R.E.M. (4,466)
13. The Smiths (3,962)
14. The Clash (3,892)
15. Nick Drake (3,699)
16. Radiohead (3,612)
17. John Martyn (3,464)
18. Van Morrison (3,208)
19. Stevie Wonder (2,970)
20. Fleetwood Mac (2,877)
21. XTC (2,750)
22. Kate Bush (2,718)
23. Talking Heads (2,622)
24. The Jimi Hendrix Experience (2,609)
25. Kraftwerk (2,510)
26. Joy Division (2,468)
27. The Jam (2,445)
28. The Beach Boys (2,393)
29. The Who (2,308)
30. The Stone Roses (2,109)
31. Miles Davis (2,105)
32. Dexys Midnight Runners (2,024)
33. Little Feat (1,976)
34. The Blue Nile (1,945)
35. Roxy Music (1,915)
36. New Order (1,861)
37. Pixies (1,815)
38. Marvin Gaye (1,793)
39. The Band (1,717)
40. Massive Attack (1,701)
41. Paul Simon (1,676)
42. Talk Talk (1,670)
43. Ryan Adams (1,662)
44. Genesis (1,644)
45. The Velvet Underground (1,568)
46. Donald Fagen (1,564)
47. The Kinks (1,548)
48. The Waterboys (1,527)
49. Blondie (1,524)
50. Prefab Sprout (1,502)
51. Richard Thompson (1,463) =
51. Tom Waits (1,463) =
53. Pulp (1,444)
54. The Sex Pistols (1,416)
55. Yes (1,403)
56. Bob Marley & The Wailers (1,357)
57. Johnny Cash (1,357)
58. Paul McCartney (1,351)
59. Prince (1,316)
60. Love (1,297)
61. Brian Eno (1,295)
62. The Doors (1,286)
63. Crowded House (1,276)
64. Lucinda Williams (1,262)
65. Television (1,227)
66. U2 (1,224)
67. Todd Rundgren (1,221)
68. Eels (1,189) =
68. Ian Dury (1,189) =
70. Richard Hawley (1,187)
71. The National (1,186)
72. The Human League (1,185)
73. Lloyd Cole & The Commotions (1,174)
74. Blur (1,164)
75. The Decemberists (1,158)
76. Dusty Springfield (1,144)
77. Wilco (1,125)
78. Teenage Fanclub (1,117)
79. Echo & the Bunnymen (1,105)
80. Simon & Garfunkel (1,098)
81. Lou Reed (1,093)
82. Captain Beefheart (1,042)
83. Primal Scream (1,016)
84. The Flaming Lips (997)
85. Jeff Buckley (990)
86. Santana (981)
87. Public Enemy (970)
88. Elbow (969)
89. Billy Bragg (964)
90. Crosby, Stills & Nash (963)
91. Suede (946)
92. George Harrison (941)
93. ABC (936)
94. Iggy & The Stooges (932)
95. Leonard Cohen (929)
96. Portishead (915)
97. Patti Smith (894)
98. T.Rex (857)
99. Gillian Welch (851)
100. Emmylou Harris (850)

Above is based on the top 500 entries only. I’ve combined scores where obvious (e.g. all the Costello listings, CSN with Young, Linda with Richard Thompson, etc.)

Hope I’m not overstepping the mark with this, as I had nothing to do with all the effort that went in to the chart compilation - I was just a bit bored tonight.

of these artistes are in my top 100 (certainly not the top 2) but a quick count says I own albums by 83 of them. Guess that makes me Afterword-friendly.

I count 83 as well.

Guess which one of the top ten I have no albums by...

at which point me and ver Floyd parted company.

I have no Brooce albums.

Thanks for that.

A few sobering revelations there. For example the Stone Roses and Miles Davis got almost exactly the same number of points.

One score is based on a single decent album by a bunch of inarticulate, druggy yobs and the other on a lifetime's work and countless albums by a druggy genius who redefined the entire course of jazz and perhaps rock music as well.

How fickle we are.

I think you're missing an important point. The Roses may have made only one great album (whether you like it or not, its an album that means a lot to a great many people), but that focused the votes for them. Miles however has made any number of great albums and so the vote for him is split. Thus one moment of inspiration is equal to a lifetime's, in this case.

but it seemed so incongruous seeing them together in the list. Just seeing the names alone kind of gives the illusion that they are of equal worth.

'gives the illusion that they are of equal worth'

Why is it an illusion? Who to say who is 'worth more' musically. I'm not a huge fan of either but i can easily imagine there are many people who consider the SR output of more worth than someone they are not at all familiar with. Surely any notion of worth or value is purely subjective when discussing music, although some will see one as having 'authenticity', itself a spurious concept which only feeds musical snobbery. 

The Stone Roses have contributed just as much to the world as Miles Davis.

Equally, perhaps we can have Plastic Bertrand sitting alongside Louis Armstrong and Joe Dolce rubbing shoulders with Frank Zappa?

I didn't set up the gag for you!

I agree that received wisdom asserts that Miles has made a bigger 'contribution' to music, partly due to a much more prolific career, but to an individual who is a huge Stone Roses fan and has never really heard Miles Davis (and outside of a musical congnescenti that really is possible) then he or she will value SR work over most things. Of course, it's possible to say they are wrong, but any definition of wrong has to be subjective. 

If an individual prefers the work of Tracey Emin for example over the work of Picasso, and therefore places more value on her work is he is she wrong, of course worth in the art world can be a literal thing in terms of what works of art fetch at auction and the Picasso selling for more than the Tracey Emin suggest a definitive answer but market price is not the same as the value or worth an individual can place on the enjoyment or appreciation they get from an artist. 

For myself, I only have 2 Miles Davis albums, Bitches Brew and Doo Bop, the album recorded with Easy Mo Be which was released posthumously and is pretty much a hip hop album. I much, much prefer the latter so does that make me wrong, should I value the earlier, seemingly more authentic Miles Davis over a hip hop album? I'm not suggesting you think this but I know this is dismissed as a throwaway album by many Miles fans and in no way representative of his greatest works, not a view Miles would have appreciated I'm sure. 

So yes, actually it seems not only possible but probable that someone out there enjoys Plastic Bertrand more than they enjoy Louie Armstrong and sees his output of equal or greater worth than Satchmo. 

Anyway, Ca Plane Pour Moi, it's Saturday and The sun is shining. 

Who has made the bigger 'contribution'. The Stone Roses may have recorded one huge album which made a lot of people happy, but Miles (whether you love him or hate him) has surely made a bigger contribution overall. That's not to belittle the SRs, just to state that Miles has had more impact/influence.

and continuing my obsession about black artists

6 which is 6% compared to 4% on an albums listed basis.

Certainly think that when you do it on an artist basis the normalisation effect kicks in

I'm seeing a possible 9.
Hendrix, Wonder, Davis, Gaye, Marley, Prince, Public Enemy, Massive Attack, Love...


that increases the the percentage massively ;)

than you originally said. I think I'm right in saying that 9 are black or largely black acts and 10 are female solo, female led or largely female acts (such as Fleetwood Mac, but not Pixies or Talking Heads). A lot of acts on the list haven't released anything for a long time either, but this is the (After) Word, you know - we are , I would imagine, white, middle aged males and therefore would vote for a lot of white music from 20 -30- 40 years ago. I also think if it was a list of favourite tracks/songs the list would be considerably different - most of my albums are 'rock' albums by white males/bands but a lot of my fave singles are by pop and soul acts. Some days I could list three Diana Ross and the Supremes singles in my top 10 alone, but I couldn't name any album they recorded.

Thanks so much, very enjoyable. Interesting to see which acts had their votes split, eg Eels seem to pop up a few times in the bottom 250, us E fans obviously can't agree on what his best LP is... Compare that with the Stone Roses, who only released one decent record to save us the bother of picking through them,

The Stones Roses one decent record didn't make it into the Top 500. Only the debut album is on the list.

I've had the cd for years... never played it. Any good?

It screeches, it squeals & the bass vibrates the house. A true conflation of rock & dance that ablouts the ears!

some really unique moments on that album

a certain track though ...

who voted for Sir Henry. Seeing that album in there warms the old cockles

Just sayin'

In your face, Julie Burchill!

that's the black artists in the next 250

Otis, Jimi, Bill,Joan and Bob.

so add them to the 15 or so I think from list #1 and you get 4% representation


Picks up bone...returns to kennel.

What about Grace, Pirate Material, Wu-Tang, Tricky, members of Dave Brubeck's group, etc....?

you calling Dave Brubeck a black artist ? In any event when has he had black musicians in his band,certainly not the classic line up, never when I have seen him.

Sting has had branford marsalis and other hot shot black musicians in his band . The Stones have had Darryl Jones on bass. Sam Clayton in Little Feat. Hey Sly and the Family Stone had white musicians so guess they're a white band.

Still throw em in if you want so let's make 4% , 5%.

My observations are coloured(excuse pun) with surprise not criticism.As I said people like what they like. But many threads here and att the old place have evidenced people with broad , detailed and strong appreciation of black artists. Also the Massive is ,I assume, in the majority form UK or Uk originated.My impression has always been that Brits have had along history of liking and supporting black artists often when neglected in their home country. Hence my surprise.

... people like what they like - but I do find it sad (and ironic) when albums like "Dusty In Memphis" (which I agree is a good album) figure so strongly and albums like "I Never Loved A Man ..." by Aretha Franklin don't even make the 500 (or have I missed it?) - which, in my opinion, is a far stronger record.

So many fabulous albums, which to choose. Personally, I think at least half a dozen of hers are better than Dusty In Memphis, which is a great record itself. Some of us, including me, restricted ourselves to one album per artist to challenge ourselves & make us trawl wider & broader into our record collections & tastes. It wasn't a 'rule' in the OP. I ended up voting for both I Never Loved A Man & In Memphis. Lady Soul, Young Gifted & Black, Amazing Grace, Live At Fillmore, Artha '69 were, therefore, left out, even though I rate them all as better than Dusty.

that is daft. I voted for the Aretha album and can't believe it doesn't figure in the final list at all. To think that Parallel Lines sits so high in the list and Aretha doesn't make the top 500 does highlight a weakness of the whole list thing. But hey, nothings perfect, as a value system I think it has worked out very well. But in playing about trying to format the excel the other night, I sorted the top 250 into number order, so that it went 1, 11, 12 etc. The result was, to my subjective view, arguably better than the actual numerical list. Try it.

... my fault that Aretha didn't make the top 500 - I didn't vote because I wanted it to be a pure piece of research (either that or I'm lazy). I'm also surprised at how low OK Computer and Station To Station are.

"To think that Parallel Lines sits so high in the list and Aretha doesn't make the top 500 does highlight a weakness of the whole list thing."
What weakness would that be, Nick?

simple as that. Is Parallel lines ever cited as an album right up there with the very very best? Is I Never Loved A Man? Is Crime of The Century? It's Clarkson's favourite album for gawd's sake, how mainstream can you get? Any yet.

and has 5 or 6 hits on it if I recall, making it an almost greatest hits choice if you like Blondie. I own it but didn't vote for it.
Our ideas of classic albums must diverge somewhat. Crime of The Century is something I'd pay not to listen to. Clarkson will always be ' the thinking woman's ugly fat bloke' ( TM the late Linda Smith) to me, but even a tool like him is entitled to have an ear for good pop. 'Mainstream' is not a valid criticism IMHO. You either like something or you don't. (smile emoticon).

I'm much happier with the top 250 than 251-500. The bottom albums here only attracted support from 4/152 voters! The truth is that, overall, the Afterworders' tastes are pretty eclectic & only overlap significantly for around 5% of all of the albums nominated (bear in mind, nearly 5,000 different albums were nominated).

I haven't done a count yet but there is a lot more jazz, reggae, soul, blues, black music in general, in the remaining 4,500ish. However, iconic Rock expressed in album form has become solidified in people's minds over the years. R'n'B, Pop, Reggae, Blues, Disco, Dance are perceived as best enjoyed as singles (in the main). Then, Rap flourished in the era of CDs, which came after most Afterworders' formative listening years.

So, no surprises here really.

But Parallel Lines is far better than anything Aretha ever recorded, I think we can both agree on that.

it was 4am my time....

There's some validity in the 'too many Aretha albums to choose from' argument, though I contend that 'I Never Loved A Man..' stands out as an absolute classic. Perhaps next time we should do what Danny did and split the survey into three sections to compensate for the rock bias.

It is only a bit of fun, but then again, as Bill Shankly said, "it's not a matter of life and death, it's more important than that."

if I jumped down down anyone's throat re Supertramp or Blondie. I feel I may have firmly grabbed the stick at the wrong end then given it a hefty tug. I think I vaguely flashed back to schhol days & bristling at 'superior' 6th form types in flared cords looking down their noses at my musical tastes which would have included Blondie, punk stuff & reggae. 'Crime of the Century' was one of those 'symbolic' old school LPs that a 13 year old musical stalinist felt must be purged. Like to think I'm more relaxed now. Evidently not.....

You fight your corner there, or Nick'll be thinking he's right. Or, if you're worried about offending the chap (although I doubt you will, cos I reckon he's easily much better looking than you), simply pretend to innocently misconstrue his argument in your favour! Yes! That's what I did, and I think I got away with it.


I wonder if Aretha is perceived more as a greatest-hits artist nowadays so people didn't think to list any particular album of hers -- kind of like Elvis. Looking at that list of the Afterword's favorite 100 artists, I don't see the first Elvis' name on it either (just the other Elvis).

On my own list, I had Dusty in Memphis, Ella Sings Cole Porter, a Billie Holiday set, and a Chaka Khan record I love but I never thought to list Aretha. I don't listen to her records anymore. I'm not sure why. Perhaps they're just so familiar, from years of hearing her on the radio.

attracted 5 votes accumulating 242 points. I put it in my top ten. It, therefore is just outside the top 500.

followed by Lady Soul & Amazing Grace

If you wanted to generalise, and pick one genre to describe the list, you would have to choose "rock". That's hardly surprising to anyone familiar with the normal ramblings of this forum. The number of black artists that operate in that genre seems to be quite small. You could then argue that where a black artist is included, they are representing a different genre and are liked enough to buck the general trend of the list.

Indisputably the best-known "classic" Dave Brubeck album is "Time Out", and Eugene Wright played bass on that.
Here's the band...

glad to have been corrected

still dont make it no black band

I was clutching at straws!

by Sparklehorse. Only 5 people voted for it? Thats a lot of people who haven't heard it by my reckoning.

I wasn't the only one who voted for The Muppets - The Muppet Show Album.

I'll sleep better tonight

But you gave it far more than one point, didn't you!

i didn't notice? :-)

oh, The Muppet Show Album!!..damn!

David Crosby's "If I Could Only Remember My Name".
Of all the first batch of CS&N solo albums this is truly the best. I'm not knocking "Songs For Beginners" or "Stephen Stills". I just think Crosby's is better. A pearl.

A wonderfully melodic ethereal album with contributions from the west coast elite of that era.

I see that a mighty effort by Brucefield, myself and one other person paid off, lifting this marvellous collection of vintage live Dead to the giddy hights of no. 480 in the chart.
Now, if only the person who voted for the Dead's "Europe 72" had voted tactically and come in with us on "Steppin' Out", it really would have zoomed up the chart. For all you Dead sceptics, I can assure you there's a vintage half-hour version of Dark Star from one of the Lyceum shows on Disc 4....

of what got voted for by whom and in what position in their list, it should be possible to extrapolate from the data just who are most/least mainstream (but only in our terms) on this blog. Probably a really bad idea, mind.

Top 250, 251-500, albums that attracted a single point (that is voted for once at number one hundred) & albums obtaining one vote only but scoring 90 and above (that is, in someone's top ten but voted for by anyone else)! You can also read all the original votes.

Normally, I would be reluctant to name names but the truth is already out there.

What do people think?

is start all over again, using only the top 250 albums or whatever. Seen at least ten albums on this list I had forgotten about.
"Abandoned Luncheonette." anyone?
What classic did you forget?

As soon as duco01 voted, I knew I'd forgotten African Dub Chapter Three, for example.

As for starting again. I'll see you next year.

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