I've F****** had it with the Middle East

bricameron's picture

Let's just let them get on with their inevitable butchery of each other. Look at Iraq.As soon as the west pulls out what do you suppose Afghanistan will revert to? Tribal Butchery? Correct answer. What a waste of life. Syria? Drop the Neutron Bomb.

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Does it come from your personal experience of the region?

I'm just sick of it all.

Baghdad car bombs? Dead Brit doctor in Syria? Civilian casualties in Afghanistan? Western states arming Syrian opposition? The ongoing Israel-Palestine fandango? Iranian nuke programme?
Was in Waverley station a few mins ago. A couple "of Muslim appearance" were scooting across my path with hatchback-sized wheeliecases, plainly running for a train. Had i kept up my pace i would have caromed into them, so i slowed. The woman - with hijab - was closer to me than her bloke; i smiled at her as she passed. She was cute. She smiled back. She was really cute.
So there we have the answer to Middle East conflicts. Flirt with 'em. Send Leslie Phillips, not anti-tank rockets. Given the choice between a grumpy, bearded Arab martyr with a politics obsession and a grumpy, bearded Afterworder with a Mahavishnu Orch obsession, the choice is simple for the women of Jordan, Lebananon, Syria…

...send the Gays over to flirt too. EVERYONE knows that Muslims and Gaymen ALL have beards. That'll confuse 'em.

the Middle East state no one can identify

Hope that helps.

'...there used to be some shops...'

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/middle-east/lionel-richie-hits-big-... - syndicated articles today along the lines of this one "Historically, Iran and Iraq have had their differences. But both nations are united in rapture over the love songs of Lionel Richie, to the astonishment of the soul legend..."

doing with eyebrows and man hair on his chops? Urgh.

...he allegedly "filled in" for Brian Hibberd in the initial rushes of the "When You're Young and In Love" video.

Is always the answer.

the sun,at one stage , never set on its empire

Until they fit into the Home Counties.

What the fuck do they want?

Christ. I wasn't going to bite, but who's "they"?

You were biting Bricameron's head off on Twitter earlier.

No, I wasn't - I made a joke about the thread - but I do always appreciate your efforts to police my online activities. Thanks, as ever.

make the joke here? Let the guy you're talking about hear it too? I really hate this off-stage sniggering, Bob.

Anyway, "all this off-stage sniggering"? I post very little on here these days, and I don't even tweet all that much at this point. The two coincide hardly at all. So why not call out every single person who's ever said anything about the blog on Twitter? By name? Go on. Noo, because it's not about the issue. It strikes me that you have a personal problem with me. Which, y'know, you're entitled to. I hope you enjoy it, but can't you just enjoy it on your own time?

Here's my entire timeline from this morning. Someone posts a hot-button topic at 5 in the morning: I make a little joke that someone's drunk. My joke wasn't even about the poster, but the post. Me and another poster have a giggle about the idea that it's William Hague or David Cameron under a pseudonym.

That is literally it. (I have obscured other usernames, because the last thing they need is to get dragged into this.)

 photo ScreenShot2013-05-28at102358_zpsaf114a36.png

Now step off your bloody high horse.

Well done, makes me look like I'm being unreasonable, good move.

I know it's too much to ask you to confine your comments about the Afterword to the Afterword, but I can't help feeling that snarky comments about other posters are better expressed here, or not at all. Would you think about that, maybe? Thanks.

Way to bypass the premise of the post and misrepresent your opponent. Well done, makes me look like I've been personally nasty about someone when I simply haven't, good move. You have quite the track record, at this point.

Tell you what, if you commit to refrain from yelling "gotcha" every time you think you've found something that makes me look bad, I'll go back to utterly ignoring you. How's that?

I was the man on the grassy knoll. Keyser Soze. Uh... Rosebud?

I also commented on the thread on Twitter. In fact, bob is responding to me in the above. The conversation was not remotely derogatory to bricameron (and bri - apologies that you seem to have ended up in the middle of all this) and, as bob suggests, was little more than a couple of quick gags about the OP being an exasperated William Hague or David Cameron, blowing off some steam on the Afterword blog.

I enclose for posterity my end of this whole shebang, so there's no further confusion as to what's been said:

"Heh! My first thought was "Hague has finally cracked."

and

"Expect a follow up post in about half an hour: "And I'll f**king well go on holiday if I f**king want to."

It wasn't some sort of Greek chorus or social media b!tchfest. Frankly, I would have steered well clear if it had been - I can't abide online arguments and I'm only interjecting here to try to nip this one in the bud before it gets any worse.

For what it's worth, I think bricameron's OP is simply a man throwing his hands up in the air at the sheer wrong-headedness of people's ongoing desire to fight amongst themselves over b0llocks. Which makes this sub-topic entirely apt.

It's the Tuesday morning after a bank holiday, I'm sure each of us is piecing back together his or her fractured psyche. Let's not scrap about nonsense or pretend there's friction where there isn't.

Play nice, or I may have to drop the neutron bomb myself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17lkdqoLt44

My Umbrella has a fine point...

the people who complain about "meta" posts here (and don't participate in them) and the people who *tweet* about the blog would be entirely. Wouldn't it.

This is tedious enough.

Both ways.

Yeah. Entirely.

Substitute lyrics for "Stop your tickling Jock"?

I'm off work for a week. Off to see some Country later. Up to Sheffield tomorrow.

wanna zigazag ah.

What do they want?

So either it has nothing to do with us so why would we drop a neutron bomb, or we have a responsibility to the people of that region given that the west imposed most of the boundaries and installed many of the regimes that are causing the grief now, so why would we drop a neutron bomb on them ? Would you apply the same logic to Northern Ireland in the 70's ?

Presumably it's some sort of Freudian slip to suggest the kind of bomb that leaves property intact, because it couldn't be that our interests in the region are solely to do with mineral and oil deposits (and were when we prescribed the boundaries and installed the regimes). Whereas atom bombs that leave the place uninhabitable and render the plunder inaccessible, destroying the oil infrastructure (our 'interests')....I'd say they want to be left alone to exploit their own resources, much like a lot of people around the world, but because of the vested interests locally and overseeing them, it ain't going to happen any time soon there or anywhere else.

Only today I read in the news Europe is lifting the arms trade embargo on the Syrian regime, so the 'trade' can resume. Don't get too attached to your principles.

that you're a European and/or westerner, first world type. The 'we', 'our', 'us' and so on have soooo much baggage. For all I know the Afterword might be a haven for Sunni Vish fans, Shi'ite Jeff Beck aficionados and so on. You know how it is with pseudonyms.

What do football fans chant in the Middle East?

"You're Shi'ite and you know you are!"

Ithangyew. Halal Bovrils all round at half time.

'Get yer face out, get yer face out, get yer face out for the lads!'

Western weapons. Western arms. Corrupt governments propped up so they keep the money flowing in the correct direction - which is always THROUGH London.

Tens of thousands of blameless civilians killed.

What have the bastards got to complain about eh?

Very well said.

We seem to be in some sort of a tussle (the World) between ourselves with no stated argument for or against anything tangible that I can see.No-one seems to be able to articulate their reason and so...

might I recommend Robert Fisk's "The Great War for Civilisation: The Conquest of the Middle East". But there is such a thing as too much f*ck*n perspective....the point is not that so many people are pissed off now for obscure reasons, it's the fact that the reasons go back centuries and have been piling up along with the bodies.

Highly recommended - Fisky's never short of an opinion, as we all know - but I recommend a thorough regime of weight-training before kicking off, as it's a huge book and frankly very difficult (physically) to read in the scratcher.

So much perspective that if you dropped it on your foot you could break a toe.

It's interesting when something disturbs that whole 'history is written by the victors' thing, and the inevitable slant/selective memory that goes with it. That book and a few like it just make me despair about the history I was taught and the received wisdom we're routinely fed.

The sound of someone reading an Eckhart Tolle book over a Bontempi organ pre-set.

I've posted in the wrong thread.

It had a Dadaist charm all it's own. Pardon me while I get my existentialist head out of my own arse.

I was just stroking my chin and nodding my head in agreement with your superb metaphorical dissection of the Middle East peace process.

I don't, however, agree with your suggestion over on the "What's wrong with Imagine?" thread that the song is "all about oil" or "will be the cause of World War 3". OK, maybe the second one a little bit.

for the perspective. I'm tickled.

'We will know what to do' if Russia goes ahead with deliveries of S-300 missiles to Syria, Israel's defence minister has said. [BBC News Online]

Some sort of war seems to be inevitable in the middle east. Fragile democracy or strongarm dictators? Not sure how you can get from one to the other without western influence, but that is partly to blame for the mess there now.

You've been under megalomaniacal rule for decades but I want you to be civilized immediately.

why do 'we' have the right or need to impose any standards at all, whether it's the middle east, the tribes of the Amazon, the Inuit or anyone else ?

Similarly, why would imposing 'civilized' rules and behaviour be any different to imposing a religion on the area, bearing in mind how well that's gone in the past ?

So aside from undoing the trouble we (the west) have caused, which by itself has caused the blowback we're now seeing play out, and would be a massive, massive stretch to right in any meaningful way, I still don't see what it has to do with us ?

Then again, in humanitarian terms, if 'we' the international community are trying to do something about human rights, it might be a good start to apply that standard consistently, as opposed to only against those we disagree with and can beat in a war with overwhelming force, but the rest of them, knock yourselves out, so your worst....

I'm reminded of the Eddie Izzard piece about ruthless genocidal maniacs, and a recurring theme that as long as they are killing their own people (Pol Pot in Cambodia among others) we won't intervene, but cross the border and we're there.

A huge amount of the mayhem but the Chinese and especially the Russians have had a good go as well. Its a very potent combination of oil and religion - previously it was a combination of religion, imperialism and the Suez canal - which is to say, trade. The poor bastards living there don't stand a chance of being left alone. I recently read Colin Thubron's book about he Lebanon in the 60s (The Hills Of Adonis) which is an astonishingly lovely book about what was then a forgotten backwater. But even then, the 67 war intrudes...

We certainly can't throw up our hands in 'civilised' disapproval - the trashing of Iraq is only the latest disaster down to external imbecility

a couple of nights back with Fareed Zakaria. This came up, and he pointed out that Syria is the 3rd and remaining of the minority regimes installed by France and Britain, the Christians in Lebanon, Sunnis in Iraq and now the Alawites in Syria.

Based on the experience of Lebanon and Iraq it isn't just the civil wars that went on for many years (with and without western involvement), it's the fact that whoever wins (doesn't matter who), there's probably going to be some form of ethnic cleansing/genocide of the losers. Again.

That and the practical reality of going in there, and not knowing who is your ally and who is your enemy, which might also be changing in real time.

So, still wanna get involved ? (I paraphrased this last bit)

Pretending its the fault of the local population is obtuse and offensive, thats all

And it we DO go in - unlike the Bush administration in Iraq and Afghanistan - to make some effort to understand the situation and to hand things back better - not fantastically worse.

The US war machine - like ours - did very well out of those two. Less so the civilian population - and our own troops. It stinks

Turkey, seen, as a sort of secular if Muslim-looking useful strong state is now showing the cracks.
Which way should it look - towards Europe? Those in the EU are finding it even easier to refuse to countenance Turkey's EU participation as the current situation where Erdogan's increasingly authoritarian rule has pushed the proposed development of a shopping mall into the world view as "riff raff and looters" (in reality, a vociferous cross-section representing The People's views) are being rubber-bulleted and water-cannoned from their peaceful proptest against this.
While this is going on, Iraq's Kurdish region is pushing for - and will get - autonomy but this will eventually require some forced redrawing of national boundaries as bits of Turkey (sizeable bits, here), Iran, Syria as well as some former Soviet republics will want to be subsumed into a single Kurdish nation.
Erdogan is directing attention away from that while projecting himself as some new leader for the future who will crush calls for democracy and will beat down Turkish Kurd claims to secede from Turkey.
Should all pass of quite easily, I'd imagine.